Donkey Games.

Libby is a clown. A week or so ago, we went out to find her outside of her pen. Apparently she rolled under the 3-bar panels and let herself out. The problem is I think it was on accident because she couldn't get back in for her breakfast. Whoops!

We also learned that the neighbor's mastiff has been killing sheep and goats, so we now have a pretty good idea of why she was caught in the fence twice. I was pretty sure she was baited or teased into it, and that dog makes her madder then hell. If that dog comes over here again, he'll go home dead, if he goes home at all.

This afternoon I went out and climbed through the fence and walked up to her. She scampered off and hid behind the feeder, and peeked out at me. I hid on the other side and peeked out at her. I reached my hand out. She reached her nose out. We touched. We jumped. She waggled her ears. I tickled her nose and left.

Silly girl.

Masked Avenger!

Libby has been up to no good lately, and getting herself into all sorts of trouble. The other day had to cut her hoof out of the fence... 7:00 am this morning I had to remove her from the inside of a fence constructed to protect a young tree from curious horse and donkey lips and teeth. She never touched the tree, just ate the grass and weeds around it all night by the amount of poop inside the enclosure.

Luckily she's been a doll, and very easy to handle through all of this, and I even got her fly mask on her today, albeit over her halter. Libby is now ready to enter the masquerade!

Subtle changes are good too!

Lately I've noticed more and more subtle changes in Libby, all for the better.

The other day (last week?) I made climbing and hanging off of her corral panels, making silly noises, and really acting like a 5 year old. Not only did she come over to see what I was doing, she stood nicely for some facial scratchings.

A day or so later, I casually walked into her pen, and she came right up to sniff me and get he rnose rubbed. She has never come up to like that when I'm in her area, unless I have food for her.

Then yesterday, we had some people out and their 16 year old son (who has some sort of gift with animals) went out to see her- she walked right up to him and tried to take a bite out of his hat! I have an idea she wanted to play with him, but wasn't sure how to go about it- he's as gentle as anything, but this boy is also about 6'4", and probably about 210 pounds.

This afternoon she brayed for me to come out and see her, and when I did, she flatly refused to have anything to do with me. I'm not all that suprised though. Things are getting better.

Justa little prick Libby!

Today me and Mom locked Libby up so she's be easy to catch with plans of giving her her boosters for her 3 in 1, and her West Nile vaccine. Not knowing how she was going to react because it would be two of us ganging up on her instead of just me rubbing or petting her, we were pretty much ready for a pissed off donkey, and possibly problems.

Instead, armed with two syringes, and a bucket with some hay pellets in it, I was able to do them with only a little side stepping and dancing around.

We stood her up next to a fence so she was "walled in", though one good kick and I'm sure I would have moved out of her way and effective "released" her from the restraining fence. This worked with a pony we had, so figured it was worth a shot with her. It klept her from moving away, and she wasn't crazy about moving towards the mean lady with the needles.

The first thing I noticed is her skin is tight- pinching up a little was hard, but I finaly found a bit I could get on her neck. The needle slid right in, and Libby kept munching away. The only problem was it went right through and I had to pull out and start over. This time she got a little upset, but just took one step back and stopped. That one was done.

The next one she knew what was up, and I had to go quickly, but be sneaky. Lots of petting, scratching and rubbing, and playing with her chin and ears- she likes that. Got the second one done much quicker once it was in the skin.

Of course the really funny thing is that I didn't realize until w were done that Mom has never really pet her or rubbed her, or even been able to get a good look at her. She asked me the other day if Libby's ears have always been two-toned or if that is new since she is really shedding out now. I looked at her like she was crazy when she said that- of course they've always been two-toned! The one thing that has been changing a lot is her zippers are darker, and she has this gorgeous multicolored mottling all over her lower legs- almost a mix of pink, grey, and peach.

A changed donkey?

As you might know, Libby came back from the PVDR on this Wednesday we just passed. I gave her a day to settle down, as she was full of vinegar, and was spending the evening running, twisting, bucking, and kicking, and visiting with Drifter.

Yesterday I went out with a scoop of hay pellets, and clipped the lead on her and spent some time rubbing, scratching, and loving on her. She was amazingly mild mannered, and even enjoyed the top of her head being scratched to the degree that she dropped her head down so her nose was level with my knees- she stands about 40 inches, so that's pretty low for her.

I was able to rub the left side of her neck which has been more or less off limits, and when I stepped out of the pen (still had the lead clipped on) she let me rub almost back to her hips and all over her sides. The whole time, she and Drifter were taking turns lipping a few stray pellets out of the bucket through the panel.

After a few minutes, I unclipped the lead, and kept rubbing her. She walked out away, then came back and continued letting me pet her. At this point, I was going into shock- this is Libby, the "wild" (and wooly) donkey!

Today we had a bunch of people out, and one was a little girl, about 10 or 12. Taylor was able to walk right over na dhandfeed Libby a half an apple, and Libby took it! Later I walked over and Libby came over and stood while I rubbed her and scratched her all over her face and up and down her neck.

I have no idea what Mark and Amy did to her while she was there, but it must have done something to her because she is so different from when she left here! She's still not exactly friendly, but she really seems to be enjoying the attention a lot more. Hopefully this will continue over the next days/weeks and she'll get a little more loving towards me and whoever else.

Heck, maybe it wasn't Mark and Amy at all but the fact she was with other donkeys, but I love it! Also noticing around her eyes and muzzle, now that she's starting to shed out a bit more on her face, she's a beautiful red dun color right there, also on her legs in splotches. The shaved spot on her neck though still shows donkey gray..lol.

Now for the news that I didn't want to hear- Mark & Amy reported that she may be pregnant. I guess if there's no new arrival by August, we should be in the clear. Hope so anyway!

Libby has pretty feet.. I think.

I gave Mark a call this afternoon to see how Libby did, and verify how much we owe him for her peticure and anything else. He still says $30.00, but I'l going to see if I have a few extra dollars to add to it- he's doing a wonderful thing, and has so many mouths to feed and care for!

First he said she totally freaked out, but nothing else. So then I commented that I hoped she didn't kill anyone, and he said no, she just layed down everytime a foot was picked up, so most of her trimming was done with her laying down.

I guess that probably went a lot better then I thought it would- but again, when I here "freaked out", I think of a rearing, plunging, fighting horse with it's eyes rolling around showing whites.

I want my donkey to come home already... sometime this week though.

On the Road...

Well, today Libby went on a little vacation. She should be back sometime next week, with new shiny feet, and will have been wormed, microchipped, and gotten her shots.

I had sent an email to Mark at the Peaceful Valley Donkey Rescue, asking for a good farrier who will be willing to work with her and get her done gently and well. He instead suggested that he just swing by and pick her up and have her done with the rest of them. The price was right, and having her in the hand sof some donkey people I've only heard good things about might even help her.

This afternoon, the trailer showed up, and Libby came right over to have her lead clipped on, and walked out of her pen. All went well until Drifter, the Arab, dashed by to get the grain I used as a quick bribe and she threw it in reverse. A few minutes later and she was out of the pen, and walking calmly towards the trailer.

WHat made me happy to see is that when faced with a strange thing coming towards her, she went to me for safety, and when in the hand sof people who knew donkeys, even though she was afraid of the trailer, she put on a brave face and thought things out well before doing anything.

When we got Libby, she had been winched into the trailer, then tied tight for almost 24 hours because they camped overnight bringing her down here. This time, she was in the trailer in 15 minutes. The front end went in easy after she had time to look, and her front feet were placed inside. The back half took longer, but then she was in, and able to ride loose and comfortably.

As they pulled out of the driveway, I could see her ears perked forward, as she looked out the side of the trailer, very interested in what was around her. That was good to see too, because if she was looking out with her ears perked, that meant she wasn't cowering or terrified.

Her feet will be done on Wednesday, since they're having the vet out then to castrate some jacks, so she can be sedated if needed. But I think she's going to be just fine, and will enjoy the company of some of her own too.

So I guess I have a good donkey afterall. :)

I don't mean to say she's a bad donkey, but she makes me so frustrated sometimes because I don't reallly know what to expect from her, and what is a good way to see her react. I know slow and easy does it, but how slow is slow? Either way, I'll be very happy to see her when she comes home!

Libby's going on vacation!

Against some of the excelent information and help I've been given, tomorrow afternoon Libby will be getting picked up by the Peaceful Valley Donkey Rescue and having her hooves trimmed.

I hate to send her off, as she's not even all that good about anything, but it does need done, and she's not going to have it done for ages otherwise. Also, I'd rather have her done by someone familiar with donks, including abuse and unhandled ones, then someone who just doesn't have a clue.

*sigh*

Anyway, she'll be home in a few days, and hopefully for the better. The sad thing is I keep reading all these posts on the donkey discussion lists I'm on about these BLM/wild donks that are sweet as pie after only a few short weeks.

What kind of donkey did I get here?

Back again....

After our x-week haitis from being worked with, today Libby came back in and was put back in her pen. Tomorrow I need to clean it- something I should have done while she was out.

We were moving goats back into the back pen, moms and kids, and she couldn't take the fact that someone was getting grain and she wasn't. I walked over with a small handful, flat on my palm, and she gobbled it up, then snuffled my hand for more.

So apparently she hasn;t forgotten that I can give her good things to eat on occasion. Hopefully tomorrow she'll also keep in mind that I'm not going to whack her with the rake in her pen..

Almost lost one...

Mom neglected to keep an eye on Chip, our quite elderly toy poodle, and she wandered out, and right up to Libby. Libby is tempermental as all hell, and of course decided to stomp the crap out of her.

Chip got away, luckily, but I have a feeling Libby was only making a veryhalf-assed attack on her as it was. I don't see a 9 pound, half deaf and going blind dog surviving a serious attack from anything.

Her belly is half-skinned, she's bruised, and sore, and she got knocked in the hip pretty good (the same one from the leg she broke and never set right years ago) but she seems alright. Tomorrow she's going to be so stuff though.. poor girl.

I'm not too happy about being yelled at that it's my fault that Libby did that, and I should have trained her better, but she was upset. Hopefully Libby will settle down herself soon too.

Heated Arguments...

Libby is in heat. She's in love with Drifter. She keeps grinding her butt on his chest, and is scaring him away. *sigh* Poor guy, he has no clue!

Wet critters are free.

Libby & Drifter have been out for about half of the week- and we're only halfway through. Sunday, and Tuesday (today), and they're still out tonight. We're trusting them to be good and not knock down the fence.

If we don't let them out, they're going top get hoof rot, and considering we can't handle Libby's feet as of yet, I don't think that would be easy to treat. At least out back they are on firmer ground,a nd there's no standing mud and muck; they also get the benefit of being able to eat to thir hearts' content all day and night.

Libby has been living it up- she eats, browses, and stretches her legs, then later lays down, and alternates between rubbing herself on the ground, and delicately picking grass from between her fornt hooves.

Chastised by Libby :)

I probably spelled that totally wrong..lol.

Anyway, between rainfall, I was out taking photos of the goats since I've redone our entire website, but don't want to launch the new files until I have at least half of the photos up- and I want all new photos.

Libby and Drifter were moping around, wet, soggy, and refusing to go under their shelter. So while I was standing there trying to coax a few goats out into the mud to get a good picture, I was suddenly knocked/smooshed/slammed into the fence in front of me.

What the heck did that?

I turned my head, very slowly, and Libby was standing there, ears wiggling sheepishly, and watching to see what I was going to do in response to that little behavior..lol. I reach out and scratched her chin. She let her ears flop, and walked away.

Bad Donkey Mom.

Libby says she's feeling quite neglected and I understand that! Poor girl has had to brave rain the last few days, though she does use the shelter some- mostly she sticks it out with Drifter. He won't use the shelter at all.

Between raina dn this week being the first day of the new semester, I haven't had a chance to do more then talk to her a little in passing, and rub her nose a few times, also in passing. Yup. Bad donkey mom.

Greedy, pushy donkey!

Libby is a greedy, pushy donkey. A very greedy, pushy donkey. But she was good overall today. I put her on a lead for the first time in about a week and a half I think, and she followed me like a puppy dog. Only balked a few times towards the end of things.

I tried to introduce her to a curry comb today, which was interesting. She sniffed it, poked it, and let me rub her nose with it when she was sniffing it, and let me rub the cheek strap of her halter with it, but not any other part of her directly. I finaly settled for her sniffing it and lipping it, and then put it back in my pocket. For her being so interested in not being touched with it, she sure wanted to see what it was doing while in my pocket! Maybe a few more days of introduction of the currycomb and she'll let me use it on her. I know it's still cool out, but she's so furry and she is shedding.

And because she won't let me clip the rope on her without a bribe, I go out with about two handfuls worth of grain in a bucket. I know, no grain needed for donkeys, but she's getting about three single-handfuls a week, if that. Less then a cup. Half of what I bring out goes to Drifter just for standing around and waiting patiently. I'm not bringing anything out at all though most of the time, because I don't want her to always expect something. Anyway, she decided several times to push past me and go for the grain, which is on the ground in the middle of her pen so Drifter can't get to it. Each time, I stepped in front of her, gently pushed the lead back towards her chest, stepped forward slowly, and said back as she stepped back with me. Maybe she'll learn "back" pretty soon.

The last time, towards the end of our little lesson in being nice, being handled, and following me like a puppy, she lunged forward, and I was doing good to keep her in place. I took this opertunity to run my hands over her neck, shoulder, and part way down her foreleg. She never flicked an ear until I was almost to her knee, making me think she's a big old buffalo, and not one bit afraid of me! That doesn't mean I'm going to suddenly start pushing her, but it does mean that maybe she's more ready for things like brushing and other touching then I thought.

I'm also wondering what I'm going to do if she goes from being a little mouthy to being nippy- right now when she lips at me, I just move my hand (or any other body part) out of reach so it's not so easy for her to nibble. It seems to be working, but I'm curious on how to draw the line between her not being mouthy and her allowing me to look at her teeth and mouth.

ANy ideas out there, readers?

Hooray! Libby came in for dinner on her own!

The easiest way to catch two hooved critters that are out eating is to offer them dinner.... right? So this evening, Mom fed both of them in their feeders, and ten minutes later, both came happily in for the night to be put up. Libby wasn't hungry, which is fine. She can leave her hay til morning if she wants, no one else can get to it. Both of them got an apple as a reward for coming in quietly and nicely. I hope this will be a sign of things to come, because it'd be nice to have them out every weekend.

She really enjoyed her day out, and even though Drifter largely ignored her and didn't do any playing of his own, she took every chance to kick up her heels, run, buck, twist, and just have a good time.

I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but yesterday she also had a great time checking me out as I filled the goat mineral feeders- and stood for rubs and scratches again.

Munching.

Libby went out first thing this morning, and is enjoying herself. Drifter is still being a bit standoffish, but he's tolerating her very well. Cross your fingers that after a day of eating and exercise, she'll be willing to come back in!

Sweet Nothings.

The day after Libby's last day of friendliness, she pretty much ignored me, aside from showing me she was more then capable of kicking me from here to next week, without actually doing it.

The last few days, I have made myself available to her, but not tried to do anything. Just walked by, talked to her, made a few detours to walk near her, that's it.

Today we put up a few more mineral feeders for the goats, and as I filled them, Drifter was of course determined to get into the bucket. Libby was braying and snorting, wanting her share too. When the feeder was full and the bucket was empty, I went over to the braying dancing, impatient donkey named Libby... Drifter followed on my heels.

Libby thoroughly checked the bucket, and let me scratch her necka nd shoulder while she did it. When she was done, and it was proven to be empty, she started to notice I was scratching her. I gave a last rub, stopped, patted Drifter on the neck, and walked away.

Tomorrow I think they will both get to go out back to much all day, assuming MOm will buy into Libby being willing to actually come back in at night. I hope she will!

Something new...

The last few days I've been a bad donkey mom, and haven't had time to work with her at all. Yesterday I made a quick visit to her with a small bite of carrot, which still amazes me in the difference in how she eats hers, and Drifter eats his. Drifter we have to fight to make him bite the carrot, and not eat the entire thing in one bite. Libby gently takes a tiny nibble from the end, with wonderful manners.

Of course it being close to feeding time, Libby and Drifter were both full of attitude, and wanting to fight and fuss at each other thrugh the panel. I vacated the area quickly, before I was squashed into a pulp.

A few minutes ago I went out back, empty handed, and was of course follwoed by Drifter all the way to Libby. Libby, for the first time, came to me with no rope to keep her nearby, and stood for face and neck rubs. Part of it was jealousy because Drifter was right ther getting rubbed, but part of it was her genuinely wanting attention from me.

I probably won't have time to do anything more with her today, but I am hoping for a repeat of this tomorrow. Even when I reached over and got hold of her halter noseband (yes, still wearing that thing) she backed upa step, but then stopped. When I let go, she relaxed, and allowed me to get hold again, let go, and continue rubbing.

Interesting.

A quick note to her last owner says she was a BLM baby and that her white blaze is her freeze brand. Weird though that it's not healed and it doesn't look like anything at all to me. Hopefully I'll be able to read it if it is and track her back to when she was rounded up. It would be nice to know how much tiem she's really spent with humans and under what conditions if at all possible.

The last two days I haven't been able to get out with ehr and do anything, which I feel really bad about. She brays and calls when she sees me, which makes me feel worse. Yesterday I was at my Psychology class partner's house so we could work on our paper and didn't get home until well after dark. By then Libby was eating dinner, and then she was ready to settle in for the night.

Tomorrow I have no plans, so hopefully I can introduce brushes to Libby and show her how good they really do feel. I think a curry comb will be just right!

Wet Donkey = Cranky Donkey

Yesterday Libby refused to come in from the back field, and Drifter shoved through so he could go back out when the gate was opened for Libby to come in, once she decided she might get some dropped hay if she did. So thye were both out all night. First thing this morning, Libby was braying her heart out, wanting to come in.

It started sprinkling here at about 8am, and while she's not even what you can call damp, she's not happy about being wet to any degree. If it continues sprinkling, I'll turn her out tongiht so she can get under the shelter if she wants to.

Even though it's wet, I still had to do something with her because she's been out for the last two days without being handled. She decided to be a brat and for the most part pretend I hadn't asked for anything. At one point when I asked her to move forward, she stuck one foreleg out all the way in front of her, waving it in the air at her chest level. She was waggling her ears, and I swear laughing at me while she did it! Then she took one step back, and did it with the other foreleg when I asked her to move foreward. I chose another direction to walk in, and we did a few figure 8's instead.

Overall she was okay, but it'd be better if I had more room to work her in without taking her out back.

I also rubbed her under her neck, and almost made it down to her chest before she got uncomfortable, and did a little scratching on her left side where her cut/scar is on her neck. Maybe by the end of February I'll be able to handle her forelegs. I hope so.

The Great Escape!

We decided that since it would be getting dark soon, and it was time to make sinner that Libby would come in a bit earlier then planned. Unfortunately, Libby decided otherwise. After narrowly missing getting kicked several times because I actually expected her to come back in, we gave up that tactic and turned Drifter out with her.

This was the first time they had been out together, without a fence between them. Amazingly, no one got bitten or kicked, but they did do a lot of running and chasing- for the most part, he would shake his head at her, then take off, and she'd chase after him. They did this for a half hour or so, running, kicking, bucking, and chasing.

She also had an introduction to two of our large outside dogs, and that went very well. I had noticed that while she does pay attention when they bark, she doesn't have anywhere near the same reaction to them as she does to dogs that are not ours. It made me nervous though because Libby and Nana being nose to nose at the lowest and weakest part of the fence could have been disasterous, but Libby didn't even flick an ear her way when she barked at first Drifter, then Libby. Nana gave up and went off to find somethng else to do.

Finaly Libby followed me into the smaller area, and went into her pen- so she did make it back in without too much stress and bother. She was pretty stirred up though so I didn't get to rub her any afterwards- just carress her nose with one finger for a few minutes. Tomorrow maybe I can brush her out some and get rid of some of that fluff and hair that's shedidng out in sheets everytime I touch her..lol. I thikn she'll be okay with that so long as she can check the brushes out and give them a good sniff or ten.

So even though it didn't quite go the way I wanted, it did turn out pretty well. I think tomorrow she will have settled down and will be back to where we were, and maybe over the weekend they can both run and play all day- and of course, stuff their faces.

New Expiriences.

Today Libby went out back on her lead, and had a walking tour of most of the back field. I mainly wanted to take her around the perimeter fencing to show her her boundries, but a few things made the tour a bit shorter then all that. We did have some positive outcomes, and she is out back now cropping grass and weeds- she seems to be enjoying being on that side of the fence instead of being bored in her pen.

I made a concious choice to stay about 40 feet from the fenceline where she has seen the big dogs next door, especially since it makes her a little nervous, and really puts her on guard, dogs or no dogs. Walking from there almost to the rear fence, and down it halfway went fine. Once she was out of Drifter's obvious range of influence, she was much calmer, and was willing to show me the complient posture, as shown on Vicki Abbott's website. At this point she calmly followed me, a lot like a puppy, but unless she stepped on ground that gave a little or had a different texture, she did not hesitate at all.

Halfway across the rear fence, I could hear the neighbor's dogs behind us (which we share that fence with) starting to bark and Libby and I, so we began a walk back up towards the front of the property. This time when passing over things Libby stopped at the first time, she just stepped right over them. All she needed was a quick glance to see what they were.

After some more walking, frequently stopepd for rubs and scratches, I brought her back up front close to where she is familiar with, and unclipped her lead. I kept rubbing her, and then walked away. She started to follow, then realized she wasn't on the lead, and stopped. When I got about 10 feet away, she just dropped her head and started eating. I'm hoping if we can have her out one day, and Drifter out the next, they will get plenty of "out time" and hopefully be a little less excitable when one or the other is handled.

We'll se ehow things go tonight when we go to bring her back in- I'm counting on her fearless love of buckets to work here!

Rest & What?

Generally you see R & R and think rest and relaxation, but that's not what Libby had in mind today. Today was supposed to be a simple day, where all she did was louge about, get scratched if she wanted, and take abreak. Mom will be home from work all this week, so I will have plenty of time to work with her and have her keep Drifter out of the way.

So as planned, I made sure I had plenty of excuses to just walk by her, maybe lean up on the fence while talking to someone else, play with one of the barn cats near her, (she watches the cats, but it's a curious watch, not like with the dogs) and once or twice gave her chin a little scratch.

Later on at feeding time, when Drifter was running in from the field at a canter, I yelled for Chip to get out of the way- Chip and Brett were both in his path, and while Brett was paying attention, Chip is our 13 year old toy poodle, and mostly deaf. She moved, and at the same time, Mom yelled "Holy shit Libby!". I missed what happened, but she said Libby suddenly jumped into and then out of her water- half of one of those big plastic drums. She knocked her head on the corral panel too when she did this...

I think it might have been due to the dogs next door running the fence again, and our dogs running with them, barking, but she wasn't worked up like yesterday. She just.. jumped.

Tomorrow I'm hoping to bring her out for a while, and maybe take her out back to nibble weeds and grass for a while. Either way, I want to spend at least an hour handling her if at all possible- hoping it will go well.

New Girl in Town.

Last Saturday Libby arrived here on our farm. The first few days all I did was go out, hang out with her, offer her a small handful of grain, and try to make friends. A little nose scratching too.

She is almost two years old, and has had at least four homes, including ours, in her short life. Having never had a chance to really bond with anone, I can understand her being hesitant to be very friendly towards anyone.

Today was a bit of a breakthrough for us, I think. My Mom has a large Arab gelding, and he is constantly picking on Libby through the fence. Libby, on the other hand, teases him and eggs him on with the intent of getting a few good kicks in. We put Drifter out back, and clipping the lead on Libby, brought her out to walk around, and explore some of her other surroundings a bit more. She was very curious, and only balked a few times. When she did, I waited, and talked to her, and eventually she came on where I asked her to.

She also allowed me to rub one side of her neck, and shoulder, down to her elbow. Big thing for me because before it was her head or nothing. The side with the large scar on her neck is still completely off limits, but time will fix that, I imagine. Whatever did that to her had to be scary, so I understand her not wanting to be touched there. It's also still healing, so it may be sore.

Overall she is being very good, but after talking with several donkey people, I'm a bit frustrated at how little I really know and how many misconceptions I have about them. As I told one of these kind souls, I'm going to be chanting to myself "She's not a horse!" over and over again to remind myself that horse techniques are not for her.

Today she also exhibited a very intense attitude towards a neighbor's dog, though he was some 150 feet away. Within seconds, she was so worked up she was shaking like a leaf, and trotting back and forth, eyes glued on the dog. When I approacher her area, she trotted to me, and shoved her muzzle into my hand, blew a little, and went back to her attentive watch. According to one of my informants (hehe funny word to use) she was ensuring I was out of harms way. I halfway guessed she was checking on me, so I'm glad to know that I'm not totally misreading her.

Anyway, tomorrow is another day, and will add more then. All I have planned is to sit with her and just hang out for a litle while.